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Ventriloquism and Bardic Music

Role-playing Games Asked by InterstellarProbe on November 26, 2021

Suppose a bard is trying to remain invisible while still inspiring companions. If the bard starts singing, they make themselves a target. If the bard uses Ventriloquism, they can potentially make noise without drawing attention to their actual location. However, this means their allies will be listening to a figment, not the actual bard, so bardic music fails.

What happens if the party makes the save vs ventriloquism? Now, they know the spell voice is fake. Does that mean they hear the real voice? Would they be able to hear the bard singing for real? Or does the ventriloquism spell still block the bard’s actual voice?

From the Ventriloquism spell in the SRD:

With respect to such voices and sounds, anyone who hears the sound and rolls a successful save recognizes it as illusory (but still hears it).

This does not state the original voice could not be heard. Nor does it state that it could. Typically, with spell descriptions, it does not grant anything it does not say it grants, but nowhere does it say the original voice is gone…

From the description of "Saving throws and Illusions (Disbelief)" in the SRD:

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

This only discusses visual illusions. It does not mention whether or not the original image is visible when an illusion is defeated.

So, back to my original question: would a party member who made the save against ventriloquism receive the benefit from the Inspire Courage?

Note: I recognize an easier method is using the Message spell, but my group is trying to determine the limits of Ventriloquism and how it interacts with other magic.

One Answer

You cannot combine Ventriloquism and Inspire Courage

„Figments are unreal“ and „cannot produce real effects“.

Just as a Medusa cannot cast Silent Image to make a copy of herself and then use that copy to conduct her gaze attack, a bard also cannot cast Ventriloquism to make use of their Inspire Courage ability.

Ventriloquism:

You can make your voice (or any sound that you can normally make vocally) seem to issue from someplace else. You can speak in any language you know. With respect to such voices and sounds, anyone who hears the sound and rolls a successful save recognizes it as illusory (but still hears it).

Although it says „your voice“ the more importent word here is „seem“ . What you create is only a figment, you are not actually speaking or singing.

Anyone who rolls a successful save is not hearing the real voice of the bard instead, because there is no real voice. It's only a spell, the bard simply isn't singing. But in order to use the Inspire Courage ability a bard must do so.

„An ally must be able to hear the bard sing“. And this means: really sing.


Sidenote: This answer is the complete opposite of my first (deleted) answer. — Sorry for the flip-flopping.

Answered by Peregrin Took on November 26, 2021

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